Should 17-year-olds be able to ride unrestricted motorcycles?
Equal Rides
She may be a new driver, but 17-year-old Lucy can get any car she wants - regardless of its engine size - now that she's passed her test.
James, on the other hand, does not have those privileges. He has to wait till he's 21 to have free reign on his vehicle of choice. 'Why?', you ask. Because his vehicle of choice is a motorcycle.
Currently, you must be at least 21 to ride an unrestricted motorcycle. And that's after passing not one but three practical tests. A1 at 17; A2 at 19; and A3 at 21, but only if you've had your A2 for two years. For those who haven't, it'll need to be achieved through a direct access course, which you'll have to wait till you're 24 to take. 24!
The
rules of motorcycling are indeed confusing. And they've gotten tougher since 2013. Before January that year, you would've been able to ride any capacity bike you wanted at 19, providing you'd been riding for two years. Those seeking direct access could do so at 21.
It hasn't been long since we've had these new rules. Yet, the National Motorcycle Dealers Association is pushing to have them changed. Again.
For young adults, obtaining a full motorcycle licence is a difficult affair. And clearly, the government must believe there are reasons for this, having only recently changed the rules. But if the rules were revised, and if 17-year-olds were able to take just one test and ride any motorcycle they wanted to, what would happen then?
Talk to some experienced riders and they'll tell you that being a good motorcyclist takes time. 'Go easy in your first few years', they might warn new riders. 'Get a little bike first; gain some experience.' That sounds like good advice for first-time riders. But should it be advice, rather than being mandatory?
Should bikers have equal rights to car drivers, or is it better for everyone's safety if they don't?
We'd love to know what you think.
Comments
08/09/16 - The answer is quite simply "NO". But , a 17 year old car driver should in my opinion under go the same training along similar guidelines as young motorcyclists do to go up in stages to be able to drive more powerful vehicles
08/09/16 - Cars - 17 to 21 yrs, 50 BHP max 60 mph speed limiter, no rear seats.
Bikes - 14 to 17 yrs 50 cc max no pillion.
17 to 21 yrs max 30 BHP 60mph speed limiter on full licence no restrictions or further tests after that (retain 125cc no pillion restriction on provisional but with 60mph speed limiter)
08/09/16 - I agree fully both cars and bikes 250s were a good introduction compulsory training should have been brought in not a 250 ban
08/09/16 - Darwin was winning big time with LCs and X7s so 'something' had to be done.
In the long run though Darwin will always win.
08/09/16 - So to be allowed to drive my daughter would have to take the seats out to be able to drive my car on a weekend?
Many young drivers are driving a parent's car for a few years after passing, but I can understand a passenger limit
2 year period of restricted to a lower powered car (average family car probably makes comfortably less than 100bhp) restricted to 60mph would be dangerous on dual carriageways or motorways
With regards the speed limiter on a 125cc, it's not needed, keeping up with traffic flow is, most can't quite hit 70mph anyway.
09/09/16 - the 250 ban came in after manufacturers started making seriously fast 2 stroke 250 bikes , kwak kr1s , deathtrap suzuki x7 and
Many others , they should have moderated what the bike manufacturers could sell in this country rather than a blanket ban that hit much slower 250s as well !!
08/09/16 - My point is that any road user should be restricted in the power/speed of their vehicles for a couple of years from passing their test. 21 is too arbitrary but it would be safer if Lucy was restricted to a 1 litre car or 50-60bhp for a couple of years to build road craft and driving skills.
08/09/16 - I agree with this, stop with the discrimination of bikers and stop discriminating on age. Statistically you're most likely to die on a bike between 50 and 60 I read somewhere. NOT 19 - 24 as they'd like us to think.
1 to 2 years restricted for EVERYONE when they first pass. Would be much better system, but the uproar from the car drivers would be too much for them I think, we're easy
10/09/16 - I agree with both of you, and having been through one of the 2 year restrictions when I was 18, it made me a better rider and I'm an advocate of it.
However, in the above comment, take a moment to think about the statistics. There are probably 20x as many bikers aged between 50-60 as there are aged 18-24. So if you take a statistic based solely on numbers, they're bound to be higher, especially if you're not taking into account whether they were at fault or not. But if you were to look at the percentage of riders it's probably still higher for younger riders, because they're more likely to be new or inexperienced riders.
The only accident I've ever had on a bike was when I was 17 on my 125. Looking back, I'd easily avoid that accident today, experience is the biggest factor.
But that does mean that we come full circle to the idea that all new riders should be restricted, gives them time to learn roadcraft and get experience. The hard bit comes when you consider how to ensure they get experience though. When I passed my test I could have not ridden a bike again for 2 years and my restriction would have been lifted, that would have been more dangerous! But now you have to pass another test, which is expensive and bloody inconvenient!
11/09/16 - This is because middle aged dudes buy the biggest bike they can get their ass on and don't appreciate how much more power they have since there last bike. A new 600 could run rings round a new 1000. And after driving cars for so many years since their last bike the reaction time on the road is slower and they have bad habits and road rage
10/09/16 - What about my case? Sure im 27 and have several years previous car driving experience racked up, but only a few months ago at age 26 I passed my IBT on instructor supplied A class 600cc fazer. Then got the biggest bike I could insured on, a honda VFR750F. It is very quick when on the move and very heavy when walking it. Not an ideal first bike but it was my first bike. I did the IBT training for the bike and that gave me enough experience, training and confidence to handle a big bike in a basic but safe and competent manner. So instead of starting with a little 250cc that I would quickly get used to and grow out of in a month, I went and bought a big VFR750f for the sake of a broader learning curve and I can gradually get better on the bike as I go. I think the important thing is not the power of bike, but the common sense to gradually progress and not be flat out everywhere like a suicidal tit.
But experience is key! Whether your 17 or 71 and everything in between and after you need experience before you first bike or first car anyway. Just because your not a young learner driver/biker on the road doesn't make you any more a safer driver/biker!!
Everyone needs proper tuition, experience and respect for other road users to be at least somewhat competent on the road. 17-21 year olds get a very hard time to get started and going, yet its always the older and mature person I see behaving badly on the roads.
18/04/17 - My comment is the
reference to the statistics of more 50-60 year old being killed than
19-24 year olds in bike accidents. Statistics are useless for such
things as there are many more older riders than youngsters. To make
sense of your figures the percentage of those killed against the numbers
holding licenses needs airing. For instance if a firm sells ten cameras
and four fail requiring warranty work, there is a 40% claim rate. If a
firm who sells four thousand cameras has ten fail, the warranty
percentage claim is minute! But statistically the failure rate is worse
with the big firm....
08/09/16 - However I passed my bike test at 26 went home hopped onto my GS1100L and rode back through to the test centre, was I any better than an 18, 19 year old?
08/09/16 - Skill wise maybe not but certainly more risk aware.
08/09/16 - That's a fair point and I had done 2 years a while before on the old provisional licence.
08/09/16 - I'm probably a lot quicker on now on a zx10 but I don't take the risks I did at 17 I'm far more aware of the consequences
08/09/16 - Not really
08/09/16 - problem is nobody can ride on fields and waste land, unlike when I was a kid. You could learn to control slides and basic riding controls etc in relative safety. Bloody hell people cant even ride a bike off a rally field without dropping then anymore lol
08/09/16 - 17 year old me had pretty much no fear of death or even any sense of my own mortality. Did some stupid things then just for a laugh and I wouldn't have lasted long if I'd jumped straight on a >130bhp sports bike.
I was 24 when I did my DSA and was so much more aware by then, did go straight from a 125 to GSX-R but had the sense of self preservation and respect for the bike to stay alive.
You can still easily put your life at risk on an A2 bike but the lower power does make it more forgiving and they're still quick enough to outrun most things on 4 wheels.
08/09/16 - I was riding a 650 Bonnie at 17, I'm still in one piece and still riding 46 years later.,"" keep to your own side of the road and you won't go far wrong"" is what I was told after I passed my test.
08/09/16 - yes be it car or bike all new drivers should be restricted for minimum 2 years until they can prove they understand the dangers of the roads
08/09/16 - When I passed my test at 17 (on a 250), I could jump on anything; but we had a rare condition called common sense back then. The bikes weren't as powerful though.
08/09/16 - A GT750 had plenty though
08/09/16 - Plenty power, weight, s**t brakes, tyres an suspension...
It's awe relative.
09/09/16 - Passed my test on a honda cj 250, then a 400/4 so never a serious accident, but all down to car drivers.
09/09/16 - there are 125 cc two strokes that can leave the kettle for dust nowadays , it wasnt as fast as you think it was in comparison to newer machines
08/09/16 - i think more training should be had with a cbt and allow use of 125's on a cbt (i think 50cc peds are dangerous with their low speed) and i think the age/power rating the current system have is good, i disagree with having to do another test to progress though. if you do 2 years on an a2 bike, you'd be fine on pretty much any bike after that.
08/09/16 - 125s are used on cbt?! Do you mean for 16 year olds?
08/09/16 - no they're not, but i think they should be, it must be lethal having some d**k in a bm up your chuff when you can't go faster than 28mph... i just think they should be accessible, but give better training on the cbt.
08/09/16 - erm, 125s are used by all cbt centres. Most have both, 50cc for 16 year olds.
08/09/16 - yeah and that's what i mean, do away with mopeds, and enable a vehicle to get up to and over the lowest speed limits where they won't be holding up impatient drivers... just teach them how to do it better than they might learn in a half day cbt test..
08/09/16 - Kane Langston Done my cbt on a 125, So they are used
08/09/16 - Unsure due to car drivers still don't think bike but id prefer bike to car so yeh my son know more about bikes at 10than me from moto x
08/09/16 - Well a 17yr old can drive a Ferrari (if daddy's rich enough)
08/09/16 - I would say not at 17 21 yes
08/09/16 - Restrict all new drivers to nothing bigger than a one litre engine for 2 years then another test to go bigger, same roads as bikers so same rules should apply
08/09/16 - Have you seen how fast a 140ps fiesta 1.0 can go? BHP needs restriction and a 60mph speed limiter until 21
08/09/16 - Good point, bikes are restricted and so should cars
08/09/16 - life is ending some time & if there stupid enough to Hp a fast bike then S**T HAPPENS If their parents over spent & never trained them to Respect what they ACTUALLY BUILT.
um. How do you change a fuse. Pay someone else. You deserve to kill yourself.
08/09/16 - A 125 will kill or injure an idiot just as quickly as a 1000. It's not the power that is the problem. We've all seen 50 year old bikers riding like utter fools, age is not the issue here.
Legislation almost never goes backwards, you want unrestricted licenses at 17? Dream on, it's never going to happen.
08/09/16 - There should also be restrictions on driving cars too as there is on motorcycles.
08/09/16 - I disagree with your 125/1000cc scenario. What 17 year old would/could resist twisting that throttle without the experience to know what they're doing with that speed. I'm a mid 50s rider with 39 years experience and I agree that age is not the issue, but experience is. You can get a 50 year old born again biker with very little experience jumping on a litre+ bike having lost the skills he learned when younger, thinking he still has it. I know a 72 year old, who makes me cringe at some of the overtakes he does, so much so, I no longer ride with him. Youth on the other hand, is less aware of consequences of their actions.
08/09/16 - Makes no difference if you agree or not. A 125 WILL injure a bad rider just the same. You don't need to hit a solid object at any more than 30mph to die. A 125 will do 65mph. More than enough to get into serious trouble. It's about attitude more than skill.
My gf started riding 2 years ago, she has a 1000cc Kwack amongst other bikes now. her skills and experience are limited by her small time on the road, yet she is still unscathed... Attitude. Not engine size, not experience, not skill.
Conversely, I have a lot of bike skills, gained over a 30 year riding career, racing, couriering, off road, touring, you name it, I've done it, worked in the bike industry for many many years, bike journalism too, own and run my own shop. etc. etc. I am "Mr Motorcycles" essentially, my life is bikes.
I have all the skills and experience and age that you could wish for. But if I ride with the wrong attitude, none of that counts for anything. I'm a danger to myself and others.
08/09/16 - Make a mistake with throttle control on 125 and it's forgiving.
Make a mistake with throttle control on a fireblade and you'll be eating tarmac
08/09/16 - You could equally say that the additional power, brakes and superior suspension would make you safer in other situations.
09/09/16 - I agree that attitude goes a long way. In my biking life, my attitude is totally different now than it was when I was starting out, plus the skills I and everyone builds up over the years of experience and riding time give us the ability to ride faster and safer than someone with less experience. We never stop learning, never stop improving our skills. In the mix is that 125/1000cc scenario, I still think the inexperienced rider who jumps on a 200bhp bike, will kill himself with his lack of skills rather than his attitude to riding. A 12bhp 125 is far more forgiving of a lack of skillset. Of course you can kill yourself on a 125, even a moped, if you get it wrong, but if you don't know what you're doing with the power of a 1ltr+ it would be more likely. I'm sure if you had given me a 200bhp bike when I was just starting riding, I like many of us would have let it rip on full throttle and ended up in so many situations I wasn't able to control or get out of at the time. Thankfully, that's why we have the restrictions we have now. I look back at when I started riding, with no instruction and the bike test was nothing but a joke back then and I wonder how I survived. I really think attitude, the willingness to learn and improve and experience which does built up our skills over time are the key. Attitude alone will only get you so far, but when you need a skill you haven't acquired or not enough of it, it can end badly. Having the right attitude won't get you out of target fixation for example. That is one thing you have to learn yourself over time, not to look at the target, but look at the escape route.
08/09/16 - Riding a motorcycle is very different compared to driving a car. The skills you need do take time to perfect, depending on how much you ride.
Riding a lower engine size allows you to focus on the basic skills, before you hit that first corner on a 1000cc motorcycle.
08/09/16 - I passed my test at 17 next day I was ridin a gs thou
08/09/16 - I did the 250 thing - passed my test, instantly had huge crash, several months in hospital. Got compensation, bought Z1000 Mk2, been on bikes since. Started on cars - my 250 was when I was 20. Cars first was the key over the years - many potential disasters have been averted because of road experience - common sense, even - my accident was not caused by my age or the size of the bike.
08/09/16 - All part of the plan to stop our youngsters finding the joy of motorcycling.
08/09/16 - Some 27, 37, 47, 57 etc year olds still shouldn't be allowed to ride unrestricted motorcycles!
08/09/16 - The Sunday warriors up my way prove that point...
08/09/16 - It's pretty much every night and weekend where I live. It's quite regularly carnage!
11/09/16 - Or drive cars
08/09/16 - Restriction should be raised higher. Restricted vehicles can be more dangerous than unrestricted. I recently rode a 33mph scooter on single-carriageway A5 (60mph limit). Cars flew past me at millimetres from my handlebars. Bl**dy dangerous! The only way to get them to give me a wide berth was to wobble side-to-side as if I couldn't ride. Anything that cannot cruise at 70mph is dangerous. On the other hand, no one should be allowed near a car until they prove they have ridden a motorcycle for at least 2 years (particularly in winter). It'll make them safer drivers.
08/09/16 - Yip, compulsory CBT before getting car provisional would help raise awareness
08/09/16 - Not sure about just the CBT. A year or two road riding would give much better bike awareness, I think.
08/09/16 - Never liked that at all, 33mph might be OK for town driving but it's downright terrifying anywhere else and not having any power to get out of trouble is really scarey, even more bizarre when a decent push bike can go faster with no restrictions on age, skill or protection.
08/09/16 - I agree, only way they should be able to get there hands on a car is by doing a few years on a bike
09/09/16 - A minimum of 12 months riding a gutless scoot should be the Part1 of the car test for sure. Car drivers dont read the road like bikers do, We see so much more going on around us. Something only riding experience can give you.
10/09/16 - Something that I have maintained for many years. For me when I started we rode bicycles to the letter of the law and the highway code, we had to. We learnt that wet manhole covers, wet leaves were like black ice, we had to stop at pedestrian crossings red lights, ride to the left and give hand signals. We learnt roadcraft, we had the Cycling Proficiency Test in schools. By time we got to motorcycles we had quite a broad knowledge and experience of road use. The engine meant we went faster with less effort. Our roadcraft was built on. Then when we progressed to cars we knew all the things about wet leaves, manhole covers, lingering frosts in dark areas under trees and the other lurking dangers because if we didn't previously we were going to feel pain. So yes, I agree, bike riders make better car drivers.
08/09/16 - I have to say the car drivers need the restricted horsepower
08/09/16 - No. But I think 15yo should be allowed 50cc scoot, and the engine/power restrictions should me made to apply to new car drivers.
08/09/16 - Yes it's b****x
You can ride or you can't end of
Some of us were riding when we were young
11yrs old me first time on road lol back in tha day 51 now still here and still ride the same flat out
08/09/16 - Lucy's a lucky girl because her parents are obviously wealthy. Most 17 year old kids (especially James) can't afford the insurance on anything bigger than a 1000cc car.
Age is not a good indicator of a persons driving/riding ability. Experience would be better. Difficult one to legislate on though.
We need to be mindful of all this creeping legislation, how long before some non-riding MP convinces Parliament that no motorcycle needs to be more powerul than, say, 33bhp?
08/09/16 - I think that any young/new driver/rider should be restricted on power output, for the first two or three years. Within reason of course. I have always thought that the 30mph restriction on mopeds is dangerous
08/09/16 - Yes... But.i think young new car drivers should have similar licence restrictions
08/09/16 - On the Isle of Man, I have no problem with L plate (Looneys) but R plate (R-soles) in the main are over confident and drive or ride beyond their capabilities
08/09/16 - Could not agree more...!!!
08/09/16 - Lad from a wealthy family who I went to school with turned up on a Vincent Rapide with sidecar on his 16th birthday (about 1966).
08/09/16 - No I did my cbt at 28 passed test a few month later (no training bad idea I know) then rode a 33hp single. after 2 years moved to a 57hp twin. Even now with 5 years riding every day ice snow rain sun, I consider myself a novice. So yes I think it's a bad idea. I also think some bikes are far to powerful for the road (and cars). If you have a super bike on the road you are going to break the law.
08/09/16 - I past my test at 17 in 1986, as did a lot of my mates, we all went out and bought the biggest, best bikes we could afford, I sold my soul for a GSXR 750, guess what? We all survived, so did most people that did the same,f**king nanny state
08/09/16 - Give a spotty 17 year old a R1 or fireblade etc you may as well pre book a funeral plot
08/09/16 - saying that two middle-aged men on harleys last night in front of me needed a few things explained about riding
08/09/16 - Definitely not, if they don't kill themselves they'll kill someone else
08/09/16 - The question should be, should 17yo be allowed to drive full power cars. Should do to car drivers, what they do to bikers
09/09/16 - Too right. Young teens like to txt and play with their in car apps whilst they drive, Something bikers never do...that's the danger the 17 yr old and every other biker has to deal with. I once followed a woman in a volvo estate who was actually sewing a button to the cuff of the blowse she was wearing! I very nearly stuffed my truck into the rear of her when she jumped on the brakes as she nearly missed her turning!!!!
08/09/16 - Having a restricted licence is a pain. Limits what you can buy or even view or test ride. Can't hop on gumtree go see a 600 and test it as it's generally unrestricted. Most sub 400s tend to hold value unlike say the er6-n. Being relatively young we don't have a lot of money or a full time contract to get finance. I find it harsh as well I have to do mod 1 and 2 to upgrade instead of having it a couple of years and restriction lifts. As is mentioned about cars some young boys could go get an old Beamer and drift it n drive like a a@*e. Apparently that's ok but you have to be over 24 to ride what you want. I agree that it's advisory to start on a small bike not mandatory. That's unjust either that or limit 17 year olds to 1.2 cars then 1.4 at 19 1.6 at 21 then what you want at 24. Does that not sound fair? Sure most people on a restriction would agree with me.
08/09/16 - At the end of the day it should be down to personal choice. There's too many of us anyway. Teach people how to control vehicles properly (slides, wheelies, lock ups slid pans etc) before ever taking them on the road. Plus tests are not taking with friends egging u on, mobiles, stereos blasting or screaming kids in the car
08/09/16 - Car drivers are taught to pass a test, NOT tho drive on today's roads, The car test and associated training really need to be improved.
08/09/16 - A1 is a waste of time at least give them an incentive to train and test so say restriction on passing to 250cc
08/09/16 - Aye passed my test aged 17 34 years ago and bought a gsx 1100 still here to tell the story rode it like I stole it all the time.
08/09/16 - When i was 16 in the 60's u cud get a bike up to 250cc.with L plates on. once u had passed the test u cud get anything u wanted.
08/09/16 - I'm glad i had my bike test done before all them rules came in. Passed mine 10 years ago when i was 18 and jumped straight on a tl1000r.
08/09/16 - The tests you took were a lot more difficult than the one (yes one) that I took to get my licence. Turn up at test centre aged 17 on a Honda C70 with L plates and ride round for 15 minutes while a bloke on foot darted through alleyways to watch you, answer a few questions on the Highway Code and that's it... licence to ride whatever you want for the rest of your life - no part 1 or anything else, just the road test and that's it. I know 2 guys who did this on a C70 and they're still alive and riding today. I had the good sense to use a borrowed Kawasaki KE100, but only because my 250 broke down on the morning of my test.
08/09/16 - NO! Pokemon generation need to mature ..in experience before letting them loose on high powered machines..were talking 'Ambition outweighing talent' not so much about age as gradually gaining roadcraft ..their and our lives depend on skill ...not kill!
08/09/16 - It's safer to keep the restrictions
08/09/16 - Hell no...A disaster waiting to happen..
08/09/16 - no never lol
08/09/16 - No way end of !!!!
08/09/16 - No. Don't be so f**king stupid.
08/09/16 - No restriction for anyone.
08/09/16 - I did when I passed my test at 17
08/09/16 - Definitely not.
08/09/16 - No!
08/09/16 - yes
08/09/16 - Restriction in itself does not work. An idiot riding a 125 is an idiot just as an idiot driving a car is. You can drive recklessly at 30mph and lets face it the mobile phone and other tech is a massive distraction. I do favour power/speed restrictions as power/speed can be seductive. But surely education is best, toughening up the test is good but you're trained how to pass that test, and that does not always make a good driver or rider. The attitude of 'I've passed my test therefore I'm a good driver' is false. Perhaps training, highway code etc should be done at school, perhaps as an extra subject to those considering driving/riding. And on another note, Policing on the roads is minimal which leads people to think they won't get caught so they flaunt the law. I travel the roads every day, 60miles everyday and I loose count of the amount of people using mobile phones. As for the Police, rarely seen unless there's an accident.
08/09/16 - They can drive unrestricted cars so why not ? - cars hurt/kill more pedestrians than bikes ever will....
08/09/16 - The trouble is with cars you're limited to fairly low powered vehicles by prohibitive insurance costs.
With bikes even a newly qualified rider can buy a sports bike for <£1500 that's faster than many supercars, but renders them more vulnerable and more at risk of life altering injuries if things go wrong. Insurance costs are also very low compared with cars meaning there's less to stop a youngster from doing something silly.
I think the A2 restricted route makes perfect sense. The restriction still leaves a wide range of very capable bikes of most styles and prevents the temptation to get on something ridiculous without proper experience, if anything it could be applied to motorcyclists of all ages.
I do disagree with having to retake the test to go from A2 to full license though, as it just adds more pointless expense when the test isn't any more or less challenging with a more powerful machine.
I did jump straight on a GSXR750 for my first 'big' bike (went straight to full squid.